About Player Stun

[Flashlight237]

Okay, so here's something too many people have forgotten about. Remember when Grunts would just knock people down, or when Storm Cloud was outright unbearable in PvP? Here's the deal. The way the game handles players getting knocked down is kinda bad. Allow me to fix it.

iFrames

First, let's talk about iFrames. iFrames are short for invincibility frames. In Eliatopia's case, there are none to be seen anywhere. Granted it's an action RPG, but typically iFrames are put into combat-based games to allow players to recover and fight back safely. When a player is recovering, iFrames went along with the player's recovery. Usually these iFrames lasted about as long as it took to recover plus the time it takes for a player to react visually (usually around 200-250 milliseconds, or 12 to 15 frames in a 60-fps game, although gamers could probably react faster), although players tend to like a little time to counter-attack as well. I would imagine the addition of iFrames alone would greatly help players who have to deal with being stunned and would outright stop players from being soft-locked in PvE by being cornered by Grunts or the like. Sure, players automatically recover if they're on the ground, but what difference does that make without iFrames?

Damage-Based Reactions

So in one obscure RPG I played, Epic Battle Fantasy 5 (a turn-based RPG), player characters can react differently depending on how much damage they took relative to their max HP. Light hits had the player characters react slightly, medium hits astonished the player characters, and heavy hits sent them flying off the screen.

I think the idea of having players react based on the hits they've taken would work better than outright knocking them out even at 1 HP of damage. Come on, me taking 1 damage from a Grunt at 204 HP shouldn't knock me down. That is basically the equivalent of a light tickle. Ideally, a certain amount of damage, say, 2% Max HP, would have the player jolt back a bit but not get outright knocked down. The player would be able to counterattack more quickly in that scenario. On the other hand 5% Max HP would knock a player down, same as before.

Of course my "knocked down" ideas are 5% and 10%, with 5% being more PvP-friendly while 10% is more PvE-friendly, but I am firm on making 2% of a player's HP worth of damage make a player react slightly.

Storm Cloud's PvP-Breaking Stun

Storm Cloud's PvP-Breaking stun, before that was removed, was broken not because of damage, but because of the poor workings on how player stun worked as a whole. Should the above suggestions be added in, preferably the iFrames, I think it would be possible to bring back Storm Cloud's stun in a fairer, non-breaking manner. The iFrames would allow players to escape Storm Cloud instead of being stun-locked after the initial strike whereas the damage-based reactions would make the players more receptive to how much damage they'd realistically feel from an attack. I have no idea how it would work in execution WITH fixes on the core player stun mechanics, but I personally hope fixing the core stun mechanic would provide some wiggle room.

How Do I Plan on Getting This Through?

Okay, so Robby wants player support, we get that. To make it more apparent which of these things players are more accepting of, I have put up a poll to most effectively communicate whatever support this would garner, or none. I don't really care which. I would rather have iFrames myself, but who knows what the community thinks?

So yeah, those are my takes on handling player stun itself.

[TheWood]

Mages should not have the ability to stun players on the hill with clouds, they do not even need to enter the hill to deal damage. 10% hp for both.

[cinos]

Flashlight, have you ever played an fps game? Ever?

Eliatopia is more like that than a single player 90s game, it doesn't need i-frames because it's not that type of game, and this is not a good suggestion. Nobody even considers adding poison to magic breathe because somehow we rather bring back stun with new completely unfitting mechanics, rather than add poison to Wizard and make him deal anything other than insignificant soft damage.ve

Seriously why do you bother with pvp if you never play on it? We've been through this before, you do not understand it, literally treat it as an afterthought, why do you think this is the best suggestion for Wizard really?

And yes by the way, bringing back stun in any capacity is a bad idea. Storm is not a risky move to use, it's not challenging, why would THAT need stun and combo potential?

[Flashlight237]

Mages should not have the ability to stun players on the hill with clouds, they do not even need to enter the hill to deal damage. 10% hp for both.

Vertical damage is a thing with Storm Cloud? Hrm. Guess nobody here really truly knows how Robby's idea of range worked.

Flashlight, have you ever played an fps game? Ever?

Uh, Halo 2 if I recall correctly. I remember trying to get the scarab gun in it.

Nobody even considers adding poison to magic breathe

I literally made one called "Halitosis" and nobody supported it, so that told me that, no, that was not the way to go.

[cinos]

Mages should not have the ability to stun players on the hill with clouds, they do not even need to enter the hill to deal damage. 10% hp for both.

Vertical damage is a thing with Storm Cloud? Hrm. Guess nobody here really truly knows how Robby's idea of range worked.

Flashlight, have you ever played an fps game? Ever?

Uh, Halo 2 if I recall correctly. I remember trying to get the scarab gun in it.

Nobody even considers adding poison to magic breathe

I literally made one called "Halitosis" and nobody supported it, so that told me that, no, that was not the way to go.

Dude just forget it, you're picking straws at this point. Just because you made a suggestion in a very different time for wizard pvp, doesn't mean we can't ever add poison breath. Seriously, do YOU have an actual suggestion besides "make wizard annoying again" or literally "remove expertise"?

This is lacking in creativity, and I say that after recommending a damage type.

[Flashlight237]

Mages should not have the ability to stun players on the hill with clouds, they do not even need to enter the hill to deal damage. 10% hp for both.

Vertical damage is a thing with Storm Cloud? Hrm. Guess nobody here really truly knows how Robby's idea of range worked.

Flashlight, have you ever played an fps game? Ever?

Uh, Halo 2 if I recall correctly. I remember trying to get the scarab gun in it.

Nobody even considers adding poison to magic breathe

I literally made one called "Halitosis" and nobody supported it, so that told me that, no, that was not the way to go.

Dude just forget it, you're picking straws at this point. Just because you made a suggestion in a very different time for wizard pvp, doesn't mean we can't ever add poison breath. Seriously, do YOU have an actual suggestion besides "make wizard annoying again" or literally "remove expertise"?

This is lacking in creativity, and I say that after recommending a damage type.

Mate, you're crazy if you think I'd outright go for removing expertise (I dread the thought even), but other than that, I honestly think you're right when you said I'm just grasping straws. Literally the last creative idea I had was a Boomerang-based class that would've included a slight sense of flight control (nothing OP like Mona's shtick in Warioware Get it Together; just a means to have the boomerang curve a certain direction based on your mouse cursor) and a passive skill that increases flight speed, and I've been very hesitant on trying to bring that idea into the limelight. It's like... What the heck am I supposed to do? I'm burnt out, man!

[cinos]

Vertical damage is a thing with Storm Cloud? Hrm. Guess nobody here really truly knows how Robby's idea of range worked.



Uh, Halo 2 if I recall correctly. I remember trying to get the scarab gun in it.



I literally made one called "Halitosis" and nobody supported it, so that told me that, no, that was not the way to go.

Dude just forget it, you're picking straws at this point. Just because you made a suggestion in a very different time for wizard pvp, doesn't mean we can't ever add poison breath. Seriously, do YOU have an actual suggestion besides "make wizard annoying again" or literally "remove expertise"?

This is lacking in creativity, and I say that after recommending a damage type.

Mate, you're crazy if you think I'd outright go for removing expertise (I dread the thought even), but other than that, I honestly think you're right when you said I'm just grasping straws. Literally the last creative idea I had was a Boomerang-based class that would've included a slight sense of flight control (nothing OP like Mona's shtick in Warioware Get it Together; just a means to have the boomerang curve a certain direction based on your mouse cursor) and a passive skill that increases flight speed, and I've been very hesitant on trying to bring that idea into the limelight. It's like... What the heck am I supposed to do? I'm burnt out, man!

I would recommend you keep your ideas on like, runes and- monsters and areas, since you are pretty good at making creative scenery and...well, throwing ideas into the wall until one is a good enough rune, as we all do.

[MaxBlue01]

Dude just forget it, you're picking straws at this point. Just because you made a suggestion in a very different time for wizard pvp, doesn't mean we can't ever add poison breath. Seriously, do YOU have an actual suggestion besides "make wizard annoying again" or literally "remove expertise"?

This is lacking in creativity, and I say that after recommending a damage type.

Strange that you criticise mage class as "annoying" when a vast majority of players think the same about cowboys currently, both at late-game grind and PvP. Did you purposefully not mentionned that because you are yourself a cowboy using the easiest role? That you are unable to do auto-criticism?

Storm cloud was already a problem ever since HH: an auto-aim attack that ignore player position when the game is about mobility isn't fine. At all. i already suggested in one of my post that storm cloud should first be reworked to allow the players to see WHERE exactly the lightning will strike (like 1-2 sec before). Another idea i can add is that players hit by lightning slow down a bit (instead of being stunned) (like 10-20% slow down? Not exactly sure how movement speed work, since only warriors can change their movement speed).

Anyway back to the topic. The idea of stun (unable to move and attack for a short time) in action games is very often a strong (OP) feature, sometimes leading to stun-lock/perma-stun depending of the case, basically making the game near unplayable for the majority of players if such mechanic is abused.

- I-Frames: this is usually the way to prevent such exploits to happen. It is NOT limited to fighting games (there are games like Mario games). Let's precise however that it should be limited to a "stun-immunity" after being stunned once (like few seconds of stun immunity) (otherwise, if we allow i-Frames for any damage, cowboys will be un-playable and we will see cinos and co. cursing me for 50 years if robby allow i-frames on anything). This does NOT mean damage immunity, players will still take damage.

- damage based reactions: if all damage did that, warriors will have even less chance at killing players, since they often have the highest single-hit attack (while being the toughest to hit anyone else). This alone would also create problems at area borders and corners (especially in the hill arena), since then mages can keep players locked at one corner, regardless of knowckback. Also reminder: this isn't smash bros. It was added in Epic Battle Fantasy 5 for comical purposes (or just visual purpose), not as a physical gameplay mechanic to fix something.

[CrazyVanilla]

Honestly, damage based reactions may be nice.

For an example, saw guardians. I take 3-5 damage from saw guardians on average, yet, they can still stunlock me. I've gotten pretty good at dodging it, but it really doesn't make sense to me why I can literally get infinitely stunlocked and have to relog from getting knocked down by them while only taking ~1% of my hp in damage. Thats literally like getting hit by a fly... 1% damage should not fully knock me down and make me fully immobilized.

[Flashlight237]

- I-Frames: this is usually the way to prevent such exploits to happen. It is NOT limited to fighting games (there are games like Mario games). Let's precise however that it should be limited to a "stun-immunity" after being stunned once (like few seconds of stun immunity) (otherwise, if we allow i-Frames for any damage, cowboys will be un-playable and we will see cinos and co. cursing me for 50 years if robby allow i-frames on anything). This does NOT mean damage immunity, players will still take damage.

That is legit the thing, I was trying for iFrames more akin to fighting games (i.e. Smash Bros) where it's basically limited only to the recovery animation.