HH reborn sugestions 3/5: stats, classes and skills

[MaxBlue01]

Since HH's forums are glitched for months, i guess i will invade Eliatopia's forum again for this. Here i propose various suggestions that improve the stats, the classes and the skills.

TL DR (because reading skill issue):

1) fixing underwater attacks
2) buffing avoidance and crit chance skills
3) reworking dexterity stat
4) general: new skill: better loot
5) warrior: fixing aerials attacks only working for a limited time frame while in air
6) warrior: fixing warrior aerial skill being dependant of weapon type
7) warrior: bringing back warrior skills from original HH: power attack, multi attack
8) warrior: bringing back some warrior movement tech ("mega jump", "aerial power attack dash")
9) archer's base attack better aiming / controlled aim (especially much closer to the player, or bottom on slopes)
10) archer: bringing back archer's arrow rain skill from original HH
11) archer: bringing back archer's piercing shot skill from original HH
12) archer: improving targeting arrow's skill (indicator or free manual aim)
13) cowboy: cheaper and more early gear for new players
14) cowboy: reducing overall price for all cowboy gear (being more expansive than any other gear)
15) cowboy: base attack better aiming / controlled aim (especially much closer to the player, or bottom on slopes)
16) cowboy: new skill: auto aim
17) cowboy: "new" skill: grenade (changed from original HH)
18) cowboy: bring back grenade jump from original HH
19) cowboy: new skill: rocket launcher
20) mage: base attack better aiming / controlled aim (especially much closer to the player, or bottom on slopes)
21) mage: base attack closer to ground
22) mage: base attack having small AoE radius on explosion
23) mage: bring back light beam from original HH
24) mage: new skill: fire bomb
25) mage: new skill: meteor shot
26) lvl 1 class builds (give fixed stats at the start. Also for mages: some MP regen)
27) (edited 20 september) more actual impact with stats



What is next is the details of each idea. I do NOT force anyone to read everything at once (there is a bit to cover). It's fine to take some break, and check again later to read the rest. Anyway, here are my suggestions for HH reborn:

1) some attacks / skills doesn't work well while underwater: warrior's 2 hand aerial attack (being too slow), bow's arrow base attack, cowboy base attack, mage's basic attack (with MP: the "magic ball(s)" doesnt go anywere). This can be very problematic if the ocean area is planned later.

2) right now, i feel like avoidance and crit skills aren't usefull enough to be worth several skill points. Maybe add more stats / level (ex: +4% crit chance / level)

3) Because of 2), dexterity stat also seem pointless to increase (since crit chance is also very bad). Maybe make the stat also increase our walking + running speed too (with a fixed max dexterity, like the original helmet heroes)

4) new generic skill (for all classes): better loot. increase drop chances + gain more coins from killing enemies:
lvl 1: all "normal" items have +5% drop chances. All "rare" expansive items have +1% drop chances. Enemies drop either flat +2 coins OR +1% coins, whichever give the highest bonus for the specific enemy.
lvl 5: with the same effects: +25% normal drops, +5% rare drops, flat +10 OR +5% coins)
Do keep in mind that i do NOT know the current drop rates of loot, so the number shown here might need some balance

5) about aerial attacks (warrior, archer): right now, it only work if you manually jump (by pressing up, from the ground), and attack quickly enough (it's not enough to be just in air, like falling or using a spring). I think the skills from the original helmet heroes worked much smoother (being able to use the skill when just falling from a platform or after hitting a spring, being able to use the skill at any time while in the air, even after falling for 1 sec)

6) warrior's aerial skills shouldn't be limited to specific weapons types. It worked well enough in original helmet heroes. Maybe have a specific hotkey, or combining "space" + "down"/"up".

7) i feel warrior lost too many good skills from original helmet heroes. Things like power attack and multi-attack (which might need a slight buff, considering the large groups of enemies right now)

8) i also miss some warrior's movement techs from original helmet heroes. there was 2 special tech i liked to use as a warrior:

- when using a single weapon (either 1 one-handed weapon with no shield, or 1 two-handed weapon) i could jump between the 2nd and 3rd hit combo of the defaul attack, then make the 3rd combo. This allowed warriors to go very high quickly, which help a lot when platforming. In reborn, this is no longer possible, because you can't jump without stopping the combo (it also require some skill points into a specific combo). I want this to come back, even if it mean the jump height is lower. This can also be followed by an aerial attack too.

- when in air, you could charge a power slash. If you released it mid-air, you could go very far very fast. You could even do it during the 3-hit combo:

attack, attack, (very quickly) jump + start charging power slash.

This tech allowed both great height and distance, which was i think the best mobility in the original game. Obviously, in reborn, there is no power slash yet, so it would need to be brought back (as i suggested before). If it does come back, this could be a good idea to add, even if it mean reducing the distance travelled in air.



9) about archer: allow them to shoot very close by ducking (pressing down), while the default attack's base range is slightly increased. A full charged shot should go near horitontal, going very slightly down, reaching up to the screen's border (if the player is at the center). Regardless of the direction aim, the arrow's damage work the same (either quick weaker shots, of powerful charged shots)

10) about archer: bring back the arrow rain skill, to allow archer to be able to do something to enemies immediately above the player, giving them more options

11) about archer: bring back the piercing arrow attack. Right now, archer have nothing to deal good AoE damage, making him struggle a lot against large groups of enemies. (the targeting arrow's explosion feels too small to be good, especially for the MP cost)

12) about archer: if you enable targeting arrow, make a visual indicator on where the arrow would aim. Another idea would be to use the mouse cursor to aim the targetting arrow to a specific area. Right now, the "targeting" feel a bit random and unpredictable.



13) about cowboy: it is extremly slow to start as a new player. For me, the paintball gun should be cheaper and at a lower level. Otherwise, players are stuck with killing 300-400+ green bouncers with just the airsoft gun (or taking forever to kill enough purple bouncer / green walker). Keep in mind players will move slowly the entire time (i doubt lot of new players rush the "running" skill, while sacrificing HP regen).

14) about cowboy: i noticed most of the cowboy gear are more expansive than similar lvl gear for other class. There is also not enough variety on the gear, so players are stuck with the same gear for a LONG time (especialy armors during lvl 30-40). Although archers have a similar problem too (but less problematic). Cowboy gar need a price rebalance, and have a bit more options at any level progression (avoid having 15+ level gaps between 2 gear).

15) about cowboy: it struggle a lot with very close enemies, and enemies at the bottom of a fairly steep slope (especially early game). There seem to be some kind of auto aim, but i feel it's buggy and doesn't always trigger.

16) about cowboy: skill idea: (better) auto aim: automatically lock on the nearest enemy in front of the player (it will not work on enemies strictly above / below, or behind the player). This skill can be toggled on or off (if off: gun shoot with a fixed curve path)

17) about cowboy: skill idea: grenade. throw a single grenade in front of the player (with a curve), dealing AoE damage to enemies in a moderate area after a short time. This skill can be charged to throw the grenade further. Skill upgrades increase the damage dealt (ex: lvl 1: x1,5 lvl 4: x3, +0,5/lvl). this skill use 3 MP / use, and have a small cooldown betwee uses. I need to point out that you only throw 1 grenade at a time, unlike original helmet heroes.

18) about cowboy: skill idea: jump grenade. pretty much like original helmet heroes. This skill only allow the use of grenade (which fall vertically) as an aerial attack. There is no other skill upgrade. The grenade damage is based on the skill "grenade" (if "grenade" isn't upgraded, then jump grenade will deal x1 AoE damage)

19) about cowboy: skill idea: rocket launcher. Launch a rocket in a straight line in front of the player, exploding on contact and dealing heavy AoE damage in a small area (like a small explosion, smaller than a grenade's radius). Upgrades increase the damage. lvl 1: x2 lvl 4: x5. This skill use 5 MP / use and have a small cooldown between uses.



20) about mage: allow mage's basic attack to be aimed downard by pressing "down". This will make mages fight easier on slopes (especially early game)

21) about mage: for early game, the basic attack's hitbox is a bit too high, preventing mages from attacking at a certain distance without enemies going under the attack, causing the attacks to miss if the mage is a little too far. I think make the basic attack spawn closer to the ground, to allow reaching small enemies.

22) about mage: i think make the basic attack (the small energy ball) a very small explosion on contact of an enemy, dealing AoE damage to a small area. This can make dealing large group of enemies a little easier to handle.

23) about mage: bring back light beam skill, to allow players to target enemies above (even if it need a bit of time to charge up)

24) about mage: skill idea: fire bomb. After a very short time of charging, summmon a moderate fire explosion a short distance away from the player, dealing AoE damage to enemies. This idea is literally from super smash bros wii U, with palutena's "side B" (explosion flare). Skills upgrade increase damage dealt (ex: lvl 1: x1,5 lvl 4: x3). This skill use 4 MP / use

25) about mage: skill idea: meteor shot. Launch a small meteor in a straight line in front of the player, dealing heavy damage to 1 enemy (no AoE). Upgrades increase the damage. lvl 1: x2 lvl 4: x8. This skill use 6 MP / use, and have a small cooldown between uses



26) class lvl 1 builds: right now, everyone have no stats, which cause new players to take a long time just to reach lvl 2. Here are the changes i propose to make the players have a better start for each class:

- for mages: make mages start with some MP (like 15 MP = 5 extra stat) and some starting passive MP regen (like 5 MP / 15 sec). Mage's damage heavily rely on having lot of MP. Having no MP as a lvl 1 mage will severely handicap them. Players would also have to figure out their damage is increased with MP consumption too (and not just with the attack stat). To compensate mages having 5 extra skills point at the start, the "MP regen" skill can only be upgraded up to lvl 15 (so all classes have max 20 MP regen / 15 sec). While it does give mages a bit of an headstart for skills, eventually at high enough level, any class will have all their main skills maxed out anyway.

- for warrior: considering mage's changes for lvl 1 stats, i will also propose more stats to other classes. For warrior, i propose: +3 attack, +2 defence. Warrior is a fairly straightforward class, relying more on dealing heavy hits.

- for archer, i propose: 6 MP (= 2 stats) and +3 attack. This will help players using some archers skills early, since several of them need MP (and also archers having lot of various skills). Although they still need to get the archer skills, and likely some MP regen first.

- for cowboy, i propose +1 atk and +4 dexterity. Since most guns have a decent RPM, that mean cowboys deals a lot more attacks / sec than any other classes (even if a single attack is weak by itself). This can make crit stat a little more usefull for cowboys, who can get several crit hits quickly (although they might have a small effect in the end, considering how bad the max crit chance is right now)


27) the stats (especially attack and defence) should have a more important impact for the game progression. It shouldn't take 15 attack stats just to get +1 damage / attack. I think it should be +1 damage for every 3 attack stat (or close to it). Of course, with this player stats rework, there is also a need to rework the enemies stats, to avoid having too many "useless" enemies that aren't worth grinding for XP. The main goal is to make a better flow with the progression, to have a good tempo, instead of being stuck with grindding 30+ levels on the same enemy for hours.

[Wizardthing]

what are you, chat gpt? why do you type so much poop in one post?

[HEROBRINE91]

That's really short, please explain in detail.

[MaxBlue01]

what are you, chat gpt? why do you type so much poop in one post?

unless you provide actual arguments, i'm just going to assume you are a noob forum user, that doesn't know what a DISCUSSION is. You claim what i said is "poop". Prove it. I still believe i explained each of my suggestions with enough details to understand my point. Meanwhile, you have nothing.

And FYI, you rather wanted me to create 60+ different discussions post for every single suggestion? Not my fault if helmet heroes reborn have A LOT of fixing and room for improvement.

As a reminder: i am NOT forcing everyone to "agree" with me on every suggestions. If you have a question, an improvement, or you see a problem with one of my suggestions, feel free to add to the discussion (i added numbers to my suggestions for a reason). However, if you do have a problem with a sugestion / or if you strongly disagree, i expect you to give me a good explanation. Saying "this sugestion is bad" doesn't help anyone.

[Wizardthing]

what are you, chat gpt? why do you type so much poop in one post?

unless you provide actual arguments, i'm just going to assume you are a noob forum user, that doesn't know what a DISCUSSION is. You claim what i said is "poop". Prove it. I still believe i explained each of my suggestions with enough details to understand my point. Meanwhile, you have nothing.

And FYI, you rather wanted me to create 60+ different discussions post for every single suggestion? Not my fault if helmet heroes reborn have A LOT of fixing and room for improvement.

As a reminder: i am NOT forcing everyone to "agree" with me on every suggestions. If you have a question, an improvement, or you see a problem with one of my suggestions, feel free to add to the discussion (i added numbers to my suggestions for a reason). However, if you do have a problem with a sugestion / or if you strongly disagree, i expect you to give me a good explanation. Saying "this sugestion is bad" doesn't help anyone.

no i mean YOU TYPE SO fudging MUCH IN ONE TOPIC

[MaxBlue01]

no i mean YOU TYPE SO fudging MUCH IN ONE TOPIC

Then how YOU would do it? Considering i have so many ideas + pertinent arguments? Like i said, you rather wanted me to create 60+ different topics for every single idea? You rather wanted me to "flood" the off topic section of the discussions?

I type a lot, fine. So what? If that's what's i need to do to explain my ideas, then so be it.

Now stop wasting time here. Either you have something to comment that is RELATED to my ideas (either agreeing, disagreeing, asking a question, proposing an improvement, ...), or you stay silent and go in another discussion that match your "reading skills".