Enhanced Water Experience

[Atomic]

Amazing idea! I want fishing to be added in game as well hopefully it is not alot of work for robby-

[cinos]

An ocean biome is something I REALLY want. (Include fish and fishing too pls )

I have to partially agree with Cinos on the skills part though. I'm not at all against the addition of underwater-only skills, actually I think it would be great to have (as long as underwater combat remains a somewhat relevant thing as the game continues). Though I am against straight up removing the ability to use some normal skills while underwater. I mean, removing some of them that make sense such as magic breath sure, but a skill such as arrow hoard for example, I don't see why that can't be used underwater? Also I think archers should remain ranged as that's one of the key differentiating factors for the class, along with it being more reasonable to shoot an arrow than a gun underwater.

I am generally in favor of adding more and more runes / stones because I think its a really cool feature and allows for an expanded economy, so I like the idea of the Aether rune. The only disagreement I have with it, is not being able to be enchanted along side fire runes. While this makes sense logically, I will use the same argument I used for the Ice and fire rune discussion; It's awesome to build the "ultimate equipment", and with no way to remove runes from equipment, its going to heavily reduce the usage of specific runes. Equipment and enchanting is so expensive its not worth it to build up multiple weapons for different use cases, as it is we already have somewhat of an issue between the one and two handed weapons not really having different uses.

Side note: Not sure if this is implied, but the aether rune should only work underwater, with the fire rune only working on land, so neither rune "replaces" the other


And lastly, a suggestion from me;

The water breathing rune (feel free to come up with a different name lol). This rune, as can be inferred, allows you to stay underwater for a longer period of time before drowning. This is an armor rune, meaning it can be used to enchant the 5 armor pieces (including accessories). In fact, you'll need it on all 5 pieces for it to work, and the lowest level piece will be the effect level that is applied.

For example, you have a level 2 rune applied to your helmet, armor, boots, and accessory. Your pants however only have a level 1 rune applied. You will then only get the effects of the level 1 rune until you apply a level 2 rune to your pants as well. Similarly if your pants had no rune applied, you'd get no effect from the rune.

Cinos did have a point, we really need more water in general in order for all this to work. Hmm, although my decision to make archers melee-based underwater is more out of logical necessity than it is on game balance or QoL or whatever that is supposed to be. I can barely imagine anyone even trying to shoot an arrow underwater; heck I don't think there's any instance where anyone even bothered trying. At least a bullet can travel somewhat underwater; arrows... Nah, I don't think they're gonna get anywhere.

I personally think the whole "ultimate equipment" thing is insensible, partly due to the lack of logic behind it (Seriously, why would you put fire with ice? Fire melts that stuff and the melted ice would just put out the fire. At that point, you're just gonna turn into an Eliatopian wondering why babies die in washing machines trying to mix fire and ice together), partly due to how imbalanced the way things were set up both pricewise and from a gameplay point of view (monsters don't even resist jack, bearing in mind that weaknesses and resistances are one of the bare necessities in RPGs and MMOs), and partly because, well, let's face it. Fire's gonna be rendered useless in water and Aether would be rendered useless on land. Why the heck would you use Fire to grind Red-Leafed Dragons or Aether to grind Fernips? And yes, I already stated that Aether only works underwater and Fire only works on land.

And yes, a water-breathing rune for armors would be pretty cool, as would the use of poison runes to make equipment provide poison resistance. I am doubtful that the way written there would be executed too well, though. Could just be the limitation written, tho.

>poison resistance
Please don't
>logic
Someone could arguably make the same argument as how you can have infinite poisonous liquid come out of a weapon, or have fire somehow not dwindle when liquid poison is constantly coming out of the same gun. Seriously I don't wanna be an αss, but the idea of limiting runes without any other creative uses to counterbalance em is...well, frankly kinda lame. So, okay, you can't put fire and ice on the same weapon, what happens if you go out of your way to combine specific runes, like one gun has aether while the other has...I dunno, fire. Do you get some kinda phoenix effect that makes fire spread? Does poison and ice cause serious infections? From what I've heard on the topic of seperating runes, no they don't, so what's the point of segregating these runes? Just to limit players on account of logic? I dunno man, seems iffy to me, and I find that many other players agree on this. The only true reason for this seems to be specifically to make runing guns LESS tedious by not having to get two of EVERY rune for dual guns...but like- gee, what happens then? Right, dual guns yet again make two handed guns even worse than they are now.
Basically, no, I don't like this idea, I don't see this leading to anything fun or engaging, so let's just say that runes have the same logic as wizards being able to control the weather, breathe fire, and create a giant shield. It's a game with magic, having fire and ice on a sword is not the first thing that bends the laws of nature, so just embrace it.

Plus, freezer burn, I'm INSISTING on that cause it's genuinely cool.

[Flashlight237]

Someone could arguably make the same argument as how you can have infinite poisonous liquid come out of a weapon, or have fire somehow not dwindle when liquid poison is constantly coming out of the same gun.

That's the thing, even with quirks like that, there are still some pretty basic things that need to be adhered to, just like they had been many times before. More often than not the reason why anything ice-elemental is weak against fire is because fire melts ice. Even largely fantastical series like Pokemon (which, by the way, bases all of its type weaknesses and resistances on logical conclusions) and Final Fantasy wouldn't ignore that logic. Before you bring up some inane, anti-example nonsense about "this isn't x game," 1. Examples are what makes points come across and thus I'm allowed to use examples, and 2. I use good games as reference points because I WANT Eliatopia to be a good game, not a hot mess. TL;DR Basically what I'm saying is if you wanna get creative with quirks and stuff, that's great, I can understand that, but don't toss out the most basic of logic like "fire melts ice," "money is used to buy stuff," whatever. That's just gonna confuse people.

And yes, plenty of liquid poisons exist that wouldn't put fire out; start with alcohol or gasoline.

so let's just say that runes have the same logic as wizards being able to control the weather, breathe fire, and create a giant shield.

That's the thing, wizards typically manage to use fire, ice (dunno why there ain't an ice spell yet), and thunder magic, true; but the thing is elemental spells (regardless of how you learn them) are used separately from one another in wizardry, not compressed into some weird, souped-up tandem spell like Tri-Attack (which doesn't even have an element). When you're a wizard, obviously you're gonna use those spells separately even though thunder magic (which should'a been called lightning magic) can cause a fire if it hits something flammable.

[cinos]

Someone could arguably make the same argument as how you can have infinite poisonous liquid come out of a weapon, or have fire somehow not dwindle when liquid poison is constantly coming out of the same gun.

That's the thing, even with quirks like that, there are still some pretty basic things that need to be adhered to, just like they had been many times before. More often than not the reason why anything ice-elemental is weak against fire is because fire melts ice. Even largely fantastical series like Pokemon (which, by the way, bases all of its type weaknesses and resistances on logical conclusions) and Final Fantasy wouldn't ignore that logic. Before you bring up some inane, anti-example nonsense about "this isn't x game," 1. Examples are what makes points come across and thus I'm allowed to use examples, and 2. I use good games as reference points because I WANT Eliatopia to be a good game, not a hot mess. TL;DR Basically what I'm saying is if you wanna get creative with quirks and stuff, that's great, I can understand that, but don't toss out the most basic of logic like "fire melts ice," "money is used to buy stuff," whatever. That's just gonna confuse people.

And yes, plenty of liquid poisons exist that wouldn't put fire out; start with alcohol or gasoline.

so let's just say that runes have the same logic as wizards being able to control the weather, breathe fire, and create a giant shield.

That's the thing, wizards typically manage to use fire, ice (dunno why there ain't an ice spell yet), and thunder magic, true; but the thing is elemental spells (regardless of how you learn them) are used separately from one another in wizardry, not compressed into some weird, souped-up tandem spell like Tri-Attack (which doesn't even have an element). When you're a wizard, obviously you're gonna use those spells separately even though thunder magic (which should'a been called lightning magic) can cause a fire if it hits something flammable.

That's understandable I suppose but just know that if a rune is not considered good enough or if it's way rarer nobody's gonna use it since most people have already fully upgraded their gear already, and unless you introduce some kinda "rune removal" service (which, again, would be so risky that I bet most people wouldn't even TRY using it), or some kind of insentive to think about your rune setup, nobody's gonna be using a lot of the "objectively worse" runes.
Plus, I recommend seeking for inspiration in obscure games aswell, mostly because that way you can avoid repeating overused tropes, not even with the runes just in general since I know that limiting onself leads to less ideas, ya know?

[Flashlight237]

Bumping at the request of Mikel, though personally, from how old this post is, I think some tweaks could be done.

[C0ck]

A bit complicated for 2.5D game. But sure, support !

[cinos]

I still do not support water skills, they'd be incredibly situational...

I DID think of a good enemy idea though, not exactly a hard concept, but it'd be more effective for the water area to have incredibly tough enemies, since the electric rune would hit ALL of them. This way, we wouldn't really need to change the concept of electricity underwater...

and PLEASE give them some hp this time.

[mike]

support

[Flashlight237]

I DID think of a good enemy idea though, not exactly a hard concept, but it'd be more effective for the water area to have incredibly tough enemies, since the electric rune would hit ALL of them. This way, we wouldn't really need to change the concept of electricity underwater...

and PLEASE give them some hp this time.

Personally, I think electricity resistance would work better for underwater mobs. For real, whether monsters have 100 HP or 2000 HP, I don't think any of them would be too happy with getting a toaster bath, especially with the toaster bath having essentially unlimited range.

[cinos]

I DID think of a good enemy idea though, not exactly a hard concept, but it'd be more effective for the water area to have incredibly tough enemies, since the electric rune would hit ALL of them. This way, we wouldn't really need to change the concept of electricity underwater...

and PLEASE give them some hp this time.

Personally, I think electricity resistance would work better for underwater mobs. For real, whether monsters have 100 HP or 2000 HP, I don't think any of them would be too happy with getting a toaster bath, especially with the toaster bath having essentially unlimited range.

Do I care about what the monsters think? lol

Good idea btw, THOUGH I still think we could have one water area with my concept, just a few really tough mfs ala feral beast/auroch beetle who require electricity to take down, which would be helpful for a team...perhaps even make it a boss.

....it'd be unique.