Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

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GeraltOfRivia
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by GeraltOfRivia » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm

Honestly reading all this was mostly waste of time. Why? all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't. All you are mentioning is why he will face problems killing others in PvP without poizon zone. Stiil at the same time as you talk about his skills why none of you will mention coin shot-skill that might not sound to be good there, yet gunman don't have to carry millions to use it there. But that is just a top of the mountain. Another thing is that gunman as the only class have highest base attack range which allows him to stay away from danger if played well. Want some more-as the only class he can walk while attacking so either he can get closer or get away from opponent attach range. So far i guess all i said will be highly discredit by any argument anyone can use against it. So now i guess it is time to make something clear. If Robby don't want to make skills mainly either to work mostly on PvP/PvE, do not try to make gunman even more powerfull class than he is now. Giving him more powerfull skill will only ruin balance. Yes balnce that you like to bring here so much. If all that was about making classes more balanced why this is only about PvP? Maybe first compare how each class handle both PvP and PvE. So lets take a look how it looks in both cases(made for similar high lvl players)
Gunman-On PvE best class to grind all mobs eccept for bosses, with his skills he can make ton of cash in short time.Almost no need to use anyting to heal HP/MP. On PvP-not even gonna bother to explain in(would be waste of my time to handle all that hate).Yet he ain't so bad FR.
Archer-also very good on PvE(he can easily one-shot saw guardian), also he can farm all bosses. Not to mentin he is chep class and can make best money of all classes. On PvP one of the best.
Wizard-i got a feeling that he got completely forgotten by everyone, yet this is a class that in most game is made to give support to team. Tho on lower mobs this is the best class to perform instant multiple kills. So in total PvP/PvE is just not bad/not good.
Whipmaster-Honestly since he got buffed i see im as best class to grind bosses(he can kill every boss faster than tank warrior without any need to heal).
As for regular mobs-he is perfectly fine, as for PvP-another Op class with OP skills.
Warrior-completely sucks for PvE-too slow to compete with any other class, most expensive. On PvP one of the best, yet he needs the biggest food supply to survive against ranged classes.
Now where this leads us?-exactly to the main point-do not expect any class to be best both in PvP/PvE.
At the end just small addition to it. If you still insists to keep pzone or buff him in any other way-nerf coin shot and money power instead-balance duh.
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by Joey!! » Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:47 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
Honestly reading all this was mostly waste of time. Why? all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't. All you are mentioning is why he will face problems killing others in PvP without poizon zone. Stiil at the same time as you talk about his skills why none of you will mention coin shot-skill that might not sound to be good there, yet gunman don't have to carry millions to use it there. But that is just a top of the mountain. Another thing is that gunman as the only class have highest base attack range which allows him to stay away from danger if played well. Want some more-as the only class he can walk while attacking so either he can get closer or get away from opponent attach range. So far i guess all i said will be highly discredit by any argument anyone can use against it. So now i guess it is time to make something clear. If Robby don't want to make skills mainly either to work mostly on PvP/PvE, do not try to make gunman even more powerfull class than he is now. Giving him more powerfull skill will only ruin balance. Yes balnce that you like to bring here so much. If all that was about making classes more balanced why this is only about PvP? Maybe first compare how each class handle both PvP and PvE. So lets take a look how it looks in both cases(made for similar high lvl players)
Gunman-On PvE best class to grind all mobs eccept for bosses, with his skills he can make ton of cash in short time.Almost no need to use anyting to heal HP/MP. On PvP-not even gonna bother to explain in(would be waste of my time to handle all that hate).Yet he ain't so bad FR.
Archer-also very good on PvE(he can easily one-shot saw guardian), also he can farm all bosses. Not to mentin he is chep class and can make best money of all classes. On PvP one of the best.
Wizard-i got a feeling that he got completely forgotten by everyone, yet this is a class that in most game is made to give support to team. Tho on lower mobs this is the best class to perform instant multiple kills. So in total PvP/PvE is just not bad/not good.
Whipmaster-Honestly since he got buffed i see im as best class to grind bosses(he can kill every boss faster than tank warrior without any need to heal).
As for regular mobs-he is perfectly fine, as for PvP-another Op class with OP skills.
Warrior-completely sucks for PvE-too slow to compete with any other class, most expensive. On PvP one of the best, yet he needs the biggest food supply to survive against ranged classes.
Now where this leads us?-exactly to the main point-do not expect any class to be best both in PvP/PvE.
At the end just small addition to it. If you still insists to keep pzone or buff him in any other way-nerf coin shot and money power instead-balance duh.
did u even freakin read it? its not just about that stupid
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by GeraltOfRivia » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:02 pm

Joey!! wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:47 pm
GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
Honestly reading all this was mostly waste of time. Why? all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't. All you are mentioning is why he will face problems killing others in PvP without poizon zone. Stiil at the same time as you talk about his skills why none of you will mention coin shot-skill that might not sound to be good there, yet gunman don't have to carry millions to use it there. But that is just a top of the mountain. Another thing is that gunman as the only class have highest base attack range which allows him to stay away from danger if played well. Want some more-as the only class he can walk while attacking so either he can get closer or get away from opponent attach range. So far i guess all i said will be highly discredit by any argument anyone can use against it. So now i guess it is time to make something clear. If Robby don't want to make skills mainly either to work mostly on PvP/PvE, do not try to make gunman even more powerfull class than he is now. Giving him more powerfull skill will only ruin balance. Yes balnce that you like to bring here so much. If all that was about making classes more balanced why this is only about PvP? Maybe first compare how each class handle both PvP and PvE. So lets take a look how it looks in both cases(made for similar high lvl players)
Gunman-On PvE best class to grind all mobs eccept for bosses, with his skills he can make ton of cash in short time.Almost no need to use anyting to heal HP/MP. On PvP-not even gonna bother to explain in(would be waste of my time to handle all that hate).Yet he ain't so bad FR.
Archer-also very good on PvE(he can easily one-shot saw guardian), also he can farm all bosses. Not to mentin he is chep class and can make best money of all classes. On PvP one of the best.
Wizard-i got a feeling that he got completely forgotten by everyone, yet this is a class that in most game is made to give support to team. Tho on lower mobs this is the best class to perform instant multiple kills. So in total PvP/PvE is just not bad/not good.
Whipmaster-Honestly since he got buffed i see im as best class to grind bosses(he can kill every boss faster than tank warrior without any need to heal).
As for regular mobs-he is perfectly fine, as for PvP-another Op class with OP skills.
Warrior-completely sucks for PvE-too slow to compete with any other class, most expensive. On PvP one of the best, yet he needs the biggest food supply to survive against ranged classes.
Now where this leads us?-exactly to the main point-do not expect any class to be best both in PvP/PvE.
At the end just small addition to it. If you still insists to keep pzone or buff him in any other way-nerf coin shot and money power instead-balance duh.
did u even freakin read it? its not just about that stupid
Did you even carefully read what i said?
Point is we don't have skills that works only on PvP or PvE so adding more powerfull skills to a class that can easily grind almost everything will be devastating to all others. Also relying only on rune damage ain't the best way to keep the balance knowing how each class hande in both cases.
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by cinos » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:13 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
Honestly reading all this was mostly waste of time. Why? all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't. All you are mentioning is why he will face problems killing others in PvP without poizon zone. Stiil at the same time as you talk about his skills why none of you will mention coin shot-skill that might not sound to be good there, yet gunman don't have to carry millions to use it there. But that is just a top of the mountain. Another thing is that gunman as the only class have highest base attack range which allows him to stay away from danger if played well. Want some more-as the only class he can walk while attacking so either he can get closer or get away from opponent attach range. So far i guess all i said will be highly discredit by any argument anyone can use against it. So now i guess it is time to make something clear. If Robby don't want to make skills mainly either to work mostly on PvP/PvE, do not try to make gunman even more powerfull class than he is now. Giving him more powerfull skill will only ruin balance. Yes balnce that you like to bring here so much. If all that was about making classes more balanced why this is only about PvP? Maybe first compare how each class handle both PvP and PvE. So lets take a look how it looks in both cases(made for similar high lvl players)
Gunman-On PvE best class to grind all mobs eccept for bosses, with his skills he can make ton of cash in short time.Almost no need to use anyting to heal HP/MP. On PvP-not even gonna bother to explain in(would be waste of my time to handle all that hate).Yet he ain't so bad FR.
Archer-also very good on PvE(he can easily one-shot saw guardian), also he can farm all bosses. Not to mentin he is chep class and can make best money of all classes. On PvP one of the best.
Wizard-i got a feeling that he got completely forgotten by everyone, yet this is a class that in most game is made to give support to team. Tho on lower mobs this is the best class to perform instant multiple kills. So in total PvP/PvE is just not bad/not good.
Whipmaster-Honestly since he got buffed i see im as best class to grind bosses(he can kill every boss faster than tank warrior without any need to heal).
As for regular mobs-he is perfectly fine, as for PvP-another Op class with OP skills.
Warrior-completely sucks for PvE-too slow to compete with any other class, most expensive. On PvP one of the best, yet he needs the biggest food supply to survive against ranged classes.
Now where this leads us?-exactly to the main point-do not expect any class to be best both in PvP/PvE.
At the end just small addition to it. If you still insists to keep pzone or buff him in any other way-nerf coin shot and money power instead-balance duh.
Very flawed look into this, especially calling gunman the most powerful somehow. Really, gunman IS skill incarnate, since if you want damage, you HAVE to use coins or even sacrifice in PVE, and don't even pretend people don't die to that shιτ. Wanna use poison? You need patience, vitality, and maneuverability, any gunman who allows opponents to get near is doing their job wrong.
Warrior is imo the most balanced class in the game, for account that he has the most basic, most milk toast builds, with the exception of fire runes allowing for quick slashes and then raging to gain the benefits. This is mainly for PVP and organic enemies, since I have noticed that saw guardians are a bit iffy. Imo, warrior IS and always has been best at handling bosses, the only problem is that whipmaster is not properly balanced and therefore does more damage with a whip, which is such a simple fix that it doesn't even need explaining.
Wizard easily showcases the integrity of many players imo. Anyone who stopped using him during the storm cloud nerf days was very obviously only using him as part of a bandwagon for a low risk trap skill. Anyone STILL using him to this day is most likely focusing on survivability and support in PVP, since that is literally the only thing he is good at anymore, and he IS very good don't get me wrong, I just think it requires breath to become good and for some modern versatility to be given.
...Archer isn't just "good", he objectively makes better loot for completely arbitrary reasons, and I have wanted this skill WHEN I was an archer, it's incredibly insulting...also bounce arrow is shιτ and should be replaced with rain, and also have hoard be a lil faster to make that work. I miss hoard jumps, now all archer does is even slower and predictable things than before, which were already the reason I dropped him in the first place.

Wouldn't expect more from you since you have very out there ideas, it's like you're completely off the meta, which is...well, kinda endearing?

PVE or PVP exclusive skills will never be a thing because they create a heavy disconnect between the two, it is terrible game design, and even worse for the actual class experience. Imagine picking a class and finding out they are completely different in PVP. Does that sound like a good idea, or damage control? I say nay, and I always have said nay.
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by TheWood » Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:22 pm

cinos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:13 pm
GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
Honestly reading all this was mostly waste of time. Why? all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't. All you are mentioning is why he will face problems killing others in PvP without poizon zone. Stiil at the same time as you talk about his skills why none of you will mention coin shot-skill that might not sound to be good there, yet gunman don't have to carry millions to use it there. But that is just a top of the mountain. Another thing is that gunman as the only class have highest base attack range which allows him to stay away from danger if played well. Want some more-as the only class he can walk while attacking so either he can get closer or get away from opponent attach range. So far i guess all i said will be highly discredit by any argument anyone can use against it. So now i guess it is time to make something clear. If Robby don't want to make skills mainly either to work mostly on PvP/PvE, do not try to make gunman even more powerfull class than he is now. Giving him more powerfull skill will only ruin balance. Yes balnce that you like to bring here so much. If all that was about making classes more balanced why this is only about PvP? Maybe first compare how each class handle both PvP and PvE. So lets take a look how it looks in both cases(made for similar high lvl players)
Gunman-On PvE best class to grind all mobs eccept for bosses, with his skills he can make ton of cash in short time.Almost no need to use anyting to heal HP/MP. On PvP-not even gonna bother to explain in(would be waste of my time to handle all that hate).Yet he ain't so bad FR.
Archer-also very good on PvE(he can easily one-shot saw guardian), also he can farm all bosses. Not to mentin he is chep class and can make best money of all classes. On PvP one of the best.
Wizard-i got a feeling that he got completely forgotten by everyone, yet this is a class that in most game is made to give support to team. Tho on lower mobs this is the best class to perform instant multiple kills. So in total PvP/PvE is just not bad/not good.
Whipmaster-Honestly since he got buffed i see im as best class to grind bosses(he can kill every boss faster than tank warrior without any need to heal).
As for regular mobs-he is perfectly fine, as for PvP-another Op class with OP skills.
Warrior-completely sucks for PvE-too slow to compete with any other class, most expensive. On PvP one of the best, yet he needs the biggest food supply to survive against ranged classes.
Now where this leads us?-exactly to the main point-do not expect any class to be best both in PvP/PvE.
At the end just small addition to it. If you still insists to keep pzone or buff him in any other way-nerf coin shot and money power instead-balance duh.
Very flawed look into this, especially calling gunman the most powerful somehow. Really, gunman IS skill incarnate, since if you want damage, you HAVE to use coins or even sacrifice in PVE, and don't even pretend people don't die to that shιτ. Wanna use poison? You need patience, vitality, and maneuverability, any gunman who allows opponents to get near is doing their job wrong.
Warrior is imo the most balanced class in the game, for account that he has the most basic, most milk toast builds, with the exception of fire runes allowing for quick slashes and then raging to gain the benefits. This is mainly for PVP and organic enemies, since I have noticed that saw guardians are a bit iffy. Imo, warrior IS and always has been best at handling bosses, the only problem is that whipmaster is not properly balanced and therefore does more damage with a whip, which is such a simple fix that it doesn't even need explaining.
Wizard easily showcases the integrity of many players imo. Anyone who stopped using him during the storm cloud nerf days was very obviously only using him as part of a bandwagon for a low risk trap skill. Anyone STILL using him to this day is most likely focusing on survivability and support in PVP, since that is literally the only thing he is good at anymore, and he IS very good don't get me wrong, I just think it requires breath to become good and for some modern versatility to be given.
...Archer isn't just "good", he objectively makes better loot for completely arbitrary reasons, and I have wanted this skill WHEN I was an archer, it's incredibly insulting...also bounce arrow is shιτ and should be replaced with rain, and also have hoard be a lil faster to make that work. I miss hoard jumps, now all archer does is even slower and predictable things than before, which were already the reason I dropped him in the first place.
Whipmaster is the best class against bosses right now.
But jump hoard has not been somehow fixed, you still can use it. Bouncing rain just needs better targeting of enemies, it's terrible even for a crowd of monsters and it's only useful for monsters with a big hitbox because all the balls will hit the target.

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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by GeraltOfRivia » Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:24 am

cinos wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:13 pm
Very flawed look into this, especially calling gunman the most powerful somehow. Really, gunman IS skill incarnate, since if you want damage, you HAVE to use coins or even sacrifice in PVE, and don't even pretend people don't die to that shιτ. Wanna use poison? You need patience, vitality, and maneuverability, any gunman who allows opponents to get near is doing their job wrong.
Warrior is imo the most balanced class in the game, for account that he has the most basic, most milk toast builds, with the exception of fire runes allowing for quick slashes and then raging to gain the benefits. This is mainly for PVP and organic enemies, since I have noticed that saw guardians are a bit iffy. Imo, warrior IS and always has been best at handling bosses, the only problem is that whipmaster is not properly balanced and therefore does more damage with a whip, which is such a simple fix that it doesn't even need explaining.
Wizard easily showcases the integrity of many players imo. Anyone who stopped using him during the storm cloud nerf days was very obviously only using him as part of a bandwagon for a low risk trap skill. Anyone STILL using him to this day is most likely focusing on survivability and support in PVP, since that is literally the only thing he is good at anymore, and he IS very good don't get me wrong, I just think it requires breath to become good and for some modern versatility to be given.
...Archer isn't just "good", he objectively makes better loot for completely arbitrary reasons, and I have wanted this skill WHEN I was an archer, it's incredibly insulting...also bounce arrow is shιτ and should be replaced with rain, and also have hoard be a lil faster to make that work. I miss hoard jumps, now all archer does is even slower and predictable things than before, which were already the reason I dropped him in the first place.

Wouldn't expect more from you since you have very out there ideas, it's like you're completely off the meta, which is...well, kinda endearing?

PVE or PVP exclusive skills will never be a thing because they create a heavy disconnect between the two, it is terrible game design, and even worse for the actual class experience. Imagine picking a class and finding out they are completely different in PVP. Does that sound like a good idea, or damage control? I say nay, and I always have said nay.
Didn't call him "most powerful", only said do not make him "more powerful" and that is a big difference. Also i do not intend to make a strong suggestion for exclusive skills PvP/PvE only-bringing it here was mainly to explain how any change affects both. Making any big change with any existing skills might sound good for PvP but might ruin balance in PvE. Same thing goes to all runes. as an example look at whipmaster-this class used to suck, yet since he got buffed and got new skills he became not well balanced but way better to play. He is currently best class to grind bosses-he is even better for it than warrior(which i find broken but that is up to make another thread bout it). When he got snakes into his skills it was absolutely abused by everyone only because of poison, and even after huge nerf it is still usefull. So in the end everytime any class gets any good skill based on runes it creates heavy disadvantage. Thats why runes in my opinion runes should not be "base damage", but a very decent addition to help.Especially that is up to poison rune which as only constant one creates huge possibility of being abused, and gaps between kill speed(mainly for low lvl players).
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by Joey!! » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:19 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't.
thats all i had to read to know u didnt even read the dang thing. he DID NOT JUST TALK ABOUT THAT! thats all u talk about :lol:
i dont remember him even saying anything about making gunman more powerful at all, your just a selfish brat that makes assumptions without even reading the post.
8-)
8-) 8-) 8-)

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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by Scynth » Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:34 pm

Bro wrote a whole 50 Page essay :skull:
ScynthXD :mrgreen:

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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by GeraltOfRivia » Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:02 am

Joey!! wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:19 pm
GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't.
thats all i had to read to know u didnt even read the dang thing. he DID NOT JUST TALK ABOUT THAT! thats all u talk about :lol:
i dont remember him even saying anything about making gunman more powerful at all, your just a selfish brat that makes assumptions without even reading the post.
8-)
Maybe i would feel offended by your useless post if i would see even one sentence that makes sence. Not even gonna bother explaining.
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Re: Why poison is fundamental for balance (and the PVP spectrum)

Post by Joey!! » Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:26 pm

GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:02 am
Joey!! wrote:
Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:19 pm
GeraltOfRivia wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:46 pm
all you talk about is how to make gunman more powerfull in PvP in case of nerfing poizon zone will happen. Like all you can say is that he is so lame now in PvP-yet he ain't.
thats all i had to read to know u didnt even read the dang thing. he DID NOT JUST TALK ABOUT THAT! thats all u talk about :lol:
i dont remember him even saying anything about making gunman more powerful at all, your just a selfish brat that makes assumptions without even reading the post.
8-)
Maybe i would feel offended by your useless post if i would see even one sentence that makes sence. Not even gonna bother explaining.
your not meant to feel offended, and i think u can understand all of it unless u never been to school
8-) 8-) 8-)

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